Subwoofers?

[Rex]

Hi all, what do you reckon would sound better in an N15
a 15" or a 12"?

I dont know too much about subwoofers, anybody know what would sound better ?

[Splash]

depends what kind of bass you want.. 15 inch subs take alot more to get moving, so they're not always as punchy.. but if you like big drowning bass, go for a 15.

If you want punchier, more responsive bass, go for a 12, or maybe even a 10..

or.. even 2 12's or 2 10's.

personally I want to get 2 12inch JL subs for my Pulsar when I get the money :cool:

[DaMaGe]

1 X 12" will do...

Spend more money on a home theatre...

[Splash]

i'd rather have more stuff in my car, makes trips and stuff more bearable

[REDSSS]

Yes definitely in the car

i spent big $$$ on getting my home theatre system now i cant even use it properly cause im living in a flat

in the car u can use it and dont have to worry bout annoying the neighbours

mind u car audio systems tend to get stolen more often than home theatre systems:(

[Splash]

yeah, thats why i'm trying to make my install as stealth as possible..

so far I only have a head unit, but I installed it where that pocket normally is under the air con controls in the N14, and left the standard radio/cassette in. This way when I take my face plate off, all you can really see is the blank space, and the factory radio in the factory location :)

[REDSSS]

hehe splash u just changed ur logo... one sec i see a sss logo now i see a sweet pic of ur car

ive got most of the install pretty hidden... all speakers are behind factory locations... none of this rear speakers in parcel shelf biz... made custom brackets to put 6x9s in factory locations

only thing vis is head unit... i was gonna pull apart the tape deck apart and when i take the detatchable face off the CD unit put the face plate off the tape deck on :)

what u reckon bout that... should be sweet :D

PS: we need some animated smilies here

[Splash]

yeah i've seen a few people that have done that..

dunno how hard it is to pull the face off the standard deck..

I left mine in the stock location so its all there when I want to sell the car too..

heh, yeah i thought i'd play around with a new avatar, looks good eh?

[twincam16]

clay,
i had two 10's in my pulsar in a non ported box and they were excellent! try that???

ttfn
nance:angel:

[Rex]

thanks nance,
love the angel icon :thumbsup:

Clay

[naturaldisasta]

I have had the following systems in the car:

3x10 JL Audio 10w6 <--- LOUD
1x15 Rockford Fosgate Power <--- LOUDEST and fantastic response for a 15.
2x10 Rockford Fosgate Power <--- Nearly as loud as the JL's but only 2 of 'em
Same as above with a 15" Rockford Fosgate DVC. Nearly as loud as the power 15.

I have just the 2 10" powers at the moment, mounted flat in the spare tyre well. I have a FULL boot I can use (which I used to have to fit a pram into before I just went and bought the wife a magna SW)

Sound is really good, in a fibre glass/MDF single ported box.

Damon

[twincam16]

comes down to what you want. if u want it to go loud and nothing else go for 15s (18s if u can afford it)

but it you like normal people (not just riceboys) stay with say 2 10s or 2 10s.

There is a common rule of thumb called KISS.

Keep
It
Simple
Stupid!

Alot of the time you will find that a system that has a set of splits, single sub, cdplayer and good 4 channel amp will blow all the systems with multiple EQs, horn drivers, amps, etc etc.

Normal rule applies you get what u pay for

.... Runs out the back and pats the new 10" Focal Subs :devil:

[Rex]

i decided im just going to stick with this 12" kicker impulse.

that will be hooked up to a 4 channel amp (along with my 7x10s)

then my front 6.5" kenwood splits will be powered by a 2x120w pioneer amp, all running off my crappy 4 year old pioneer amp.

Should rock!

Cheers

[twincam16]

Hrmmm Maybe not rex

the 7x10s were produced to be a sepaker fro systems that did not have a sub.

what this mean is that if u have the 7x10s producing sub bass and the kicker doing the same, the will cancell each other out and you will more than likely loose base!

lets look at the gear you have

12" Kicker Impulse 12I - Good Sub, i used to have one
2x120watt Pioneer amp - I assume u mean PMPO so lets say 40RMS
4 Chaneel amp ??? - Running your 12I and 7x10s
6.5" Kenwood Splits.

Now if the amp thats going to run you sub amd 7x10 is only a cheapie then it may not be a good idea to run your sub from it because more than likely it (internaly) be up to the task of supply high amounts of current to drive the sub. Trust me the Kicker 12I loves power, the more you give it, the better it gets :D

What i would be doing it bridging the 2 ch pionner and running the 12I off that with an 80Hz low pass (there abouts anyway)

then with the other 4 channel amp, you have 2 options here
1 - bridge the amp to run your fron splits (ie CH 1 + 2 for left and 3 + 4 for right) and run your 7x10s of the deck (or just leave them out all together.) dont forget to highpass the splits at the same frequency and the sub ie 80hz.

This will probably be the best way altho

2 - run the 4 ch in 4ch mode and run all the speakers in their respective channels. still highpass the front at 80hz but bup up the highpass on the 7x10s to say 100 or 120hz. this stop what i was talking about before, sub bass cancelling.

running option 2 will rob power that the front splits could really make more use out of.

Anyway i am going to stop rambeling on now...

[Rex]

its not rambling if its useful info, thanks for the tips :)

If necessary i will sell the 7x10s, i admit they punch good bass already for a system without amps or subs, but if they will interfere with the sub **** em, i want the sub :)

whats a good speaker to have in the back, another set of splits? Or even 6x9s ? or even some kind of 6" coaxial?

on another note, i didnt say what kind of 4 chan amp ive got, cause i dont have one yet. Im looking for one that will provide good clean power while being cheap, but not necessarily nasty. I was thinking of a Blaupunkt 4 chan, a Boss audio 1000w 4 chan, or a Jaycar 5 chan.

Whats your thoughts on his Shane?

Cheers
Clay

[twincam16]

Call me biased but i hate rear fill with a passion :thwap:

in like to set up an audio system as if i am at a concert. now you cant stand with your back to the stage do you (well unless you in the pit, but thats another story :rolleyes: ) hence why would you want sound behind you? the only reason i can thing of is if you want it to have a "surround sound" effect (yuck) or to give the rear passengers something to listen to (fair enough but i say screw em cause i sit in the front :) )

if u have to have rears just get somethig that will fit in the standard location (ie 6") and just keep them simple like 2 way coaxials. and make sure they have a high pass filter on them.

What i did in Nancys was quite simple. i used the factory rear speakers (god help me) and put a 330uF (i think) bi-polar cap on each speaker, this cuts out all the sub information going to the rear speakers and they will actually play louder and clearer.

i put these on the head uites rear outputs and ran the rest of the system through the systems fron RCA outputs. what this allowed me to do was when there was tag alongs in the back i could fade the rear speakers in a little to let them lissten a bit without hutting the sound from the rest of the system.

this woudl be what i would recomend.

as far as an amp goes... if you are keeping just the 1 sub, you could just get a 4 ch run the sub of ch 3 + 4 and use 1 and 2 for the fronts. this would be ok, but it would sound a bit unbalanced, ie having 250WRMS to the sub and leaving say 40 - 50 WRMS to the splits.

if your budget permits go for the Jaycar 5Channel. this way you could bridge channnels 1 & 2 , 3 & 4 for the splits respectivly and use CH5 for the sub. this would keep the power levels more even and give the splits more chance of keeping up.

Just remeber its easier to blow a speaker with less power than more.

[Rex]

argh your one of those wierdos who hate back speakers, obviously danny has been speaking to you (or vice versa) ;)

im probably gonna get the install done at Northfield MacGregor (previously qld audio), they did a good job in other installs ive had there, i might ask them what they reckon because i definitely want rear speakers. Im also considering getting mdf buildouts made for the front splits, any pros/cons in that u can think of ?

Cheers again
Clay

[twincam16]

Good old northifield :) used to work at morooka :rolleyes:

as far as mdf buildouts... if u are putting speakers in the front yes by all means... u need a solid base for your speakers. just use 6mm mdf, trace the outline of your old splits and cut your new hole in the centre. that was how i fitted the 6.5" Focals into Nancys. sounded sweet too. one other thing that i SERIOUSLY RECOMEND is getting the door deadened. this is one thing that i have not done to nancys. and i regret it. even with the stock speakers you would be suprised the diffrence it makes. not using that spray on crap... thats useless. use the thick tar stuff u get in a 4L tin and paint it on by hand. then use 3mm mdf to fill all the holes in the door. this makes it more like and enclosure and you will see results. this i PROMISE!!! even with the facotry speakers.

but make sure you keep everything u do behind the factory grills :devil: stops the light finger brigade :thumbsup:

[Rex]

true, ill look into it
thanks for your help mate :)
Clay

[twincam16]

or just ask me nicely and ill do it for ya :D

[Rex]

hehe that would b pretty rad , i would shout the beer :)

i want to show u this pic of a buildout from a mag, i will scan it when i get home from work

[twincam16]

MMMMMMMMMMmmmmmmmmmmmmmm Beer

[Rex]

mmmm beer indeed ;)

heres the buildouts i want to try:

http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/rex666/buildout1.jpg
http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/rex666/buildout2.jpg

probably just in black to match the doors, with a map pocket like the 2nd one i circled
not sure how hard it will be, do u know any places that are good at buildouts ?

[twincam16]

bah dont bother... just use the factory ones and retrim them if u are that eager... :)

Keep all the work under the trims :)

[naturaldisasta]

BTW - I can't agree more with the comment about blowing speakers with less power then more....

I have ran around 400-500W RMS thru a 2way splits front stage rated at around 150W mid, and 130W for the tweeters with out ANY hassles at all. Ran 140W thru the same speakers (70x2) and they eventually died.

I will have to dig up some photos of a wild 3way split with a 1"tweet, 5.25"Mid and a 6.5"Mid diamond system from a nx coupe. Longer door I know, but nearly the same layout, and the guy that built it is aching to do the same for me. I just don't have a 3way any more...

[REDSSS]

7x10s were produced to be a sepaker fro systems that did not have a sub
they would be ok if u had a really big sub like a 18" or something

my primary sub is 15" and i dont find it too bad with my speakers (6" and 6x9s)

and as for cancelling bass... well for starters always run a high pass filter on the speakers and secondly they shouldnt cancel out any bass if its set up right... and if for some reason or another it does happen to thats what the 180 deg phase switch is for :D

2x120watt Pioneer amp - I assume u mean PMPO so lets say 40RMS
man if it was PMPO it would be like 5WRMS... PMPO is what all the dodgy stuff use to rate their speakers eg the really cheap computer speakers are 120WPMPO and 50WRMS 2 channel midi systems are like 1200WPMPO... its a joke of a power rating i swear

but yeah most amps are rated at peak/max unless RMS is specified so 40WRMS would be about right

power ratings should be taken with a grain of salt anyway... u might have 2 amps rated at 50WRMS but 1 is at 0.01% distortion and the other at 1%
so the one that is 50WRMS at 0.01% distortion might be able to do 70WRMS at 1% distortion... there are so many other factors that come into consideration here too

basically you get what you pay for. i have a 50WRMSx4 channel amp that goes way way WAY louder than my old no-name budget 75WRMSx4 channel amp

[REDSSS]

about the "no rear fill" argument

i agree and disagree

if your front set up is good enough sure

but in a stage type scenario the sound reflects off the walls and so u DO get rear fill... but at a reduced volume

only in outdoor concerts do you not get rear fill

with the speakers up loud i find that if the rears are turned off it sounds good

if they are not it sounds cheapish in my opinion

however if you had a good setup up front if would prob be ok
(i have yet to get splits... dumb coax... hurry up troy and sell me ur splits:thwap: )

in my current set up i have 6x9s in the rear (mounted in the stock spots) but have the sound strongly biased toward the front

[naturaldisasta]

Just don't put splits or coaxials in the rear if you *must* have rear fill. Instead use that extra speaker for a 3 way split in the front. Yeh baby... If you have to have rear fill, just use a mid.

I wonder if there is any way to fit a 8" or a 10" mid (like the infinity speakers with only about 1" mounting depth) facing the front. I reckon there would be room. I was in an audi that someone had installed forward facing 10" speakers (it was an auto tho) as well as the rest of the install, but its amazing to get air pressure kicking towards you instead of from the side.

[Rex]

i was asking people if they wanted to swap 6x9s for my 7x10s but ive decided if you put a highpass filter on it it will probably be ok (they are 3way).

Now i just need a 4/5 chan amp, im leaning towards the jaycar one

[Rex]

i just went to www.jaycar.com.au and i cant see the 5 channel for sale on there anymore :(

maybe the 4 channel jaycar is the go with, with the 2 channel pioneer bridged for the amp... suggestions? what do u reckon shane...

Clay

[Mystro]

Hiya Rex!

well for you car a single 12 will do ya HEAPS :) or dual 12's :)


and with the whole front stage/rear stage debate, its total personal choise as to what you like! personaly i like to have SOME sound behind me, if not for me then for the passangers, what i would sudgest for you is to amp your splits with as much power as possible and run your rears from ya HU and then wack the biggest amp you have on a single sub! if you want to hear what this sounds like come see me :) hehe

atm i have my splits running 100w RMS peak at 190w @12.5v and 143wRMS @ 14.4 and it sounds good i guess and the sub is getting a rough 150wRMS @12.5v for the time till i get a new amp and sub soon :) mmmmmm 12" audiobahn :)


any way if you need healp installing any thing i can do it all for ya also if ya want, been doing this for a while now so dont realy have any problems installing amps, splits, HU's rears and subs and cable's and line drivers and caps and eq's oh sorry got carried away! if you need any more adviece come over to CAA (http://www.caraudioaustralia.com) and we will be sure to help ya :)

have a good one and PODS ROCK so get them to!:thumbsup:

[twincam16]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Looks like someone needs a cold shower to calm them down :lol

as i said if your budget permits go the 5ch. this keeps this alot more even. but if not the 4ch will be fine.

i said all along u could highpass the 7x10s but whats the point? kinda defeats the purpose of running a mid / low range driver back there if your going to high pass it.

Ture if you set it up right there will be no bass cancelation, but if u start with putting certin speakers in phase and out of phase, things get complicated quickly.

you have to remeber here Clay just has a system with a single 12 inch sub/amp/deck and splits. thats all.


What i would personally love to do is stick a 8" sub i the doors with 5.25 splits in the kicks... or just hold of set of Focal Utoipias :)...............................

[twincam16]

If anyone else wants to come just give me a ring on 0403858616

we gunna start about 9ish

[Rex]

Thanks for your help Shane, the sub goes real hard, I love it :)

[twincam16]

No problems...

I am still picking that black stuff off my skin :mad:

[Rex]

ditto :(

[Rex]

ok ive made a few modifications to the sub and system. I pulled the sub out of the box and sealed the port by siliconing a piece of that thick mdf under it, then i put a doona in the box and resealed the sub with sikaflex and big stainless screws. I put it back in and it was way quieter and i was wondering why it sounded so quiet. Then i disconnected the back 7x10s and presto it was awesome, way more tighter and punchy and less distortion. So now im just running splits up front and sub in the boot, I admit it sounds awesome, but I wouldnt mind either amping the the splits for a bit more treble and mid response, or running the back 7x10s on a highpass filter. I know I paid out on the no-rear-fill boys but I have to say just splits and sub sounds awesome :)

Clay

[Splash]

*ahem*

told ya so :P

:Flipa:

[REDSSS]

Originally posted by Rex
...I know I paid out on the no-rear-fill boys but I have to say just splits and sub sounds awesome :)

it doesnt quite work as well with coax in the front :S

hurry up troy and sell me them splits

PS: u realise how much money u can save if u dont have rear speakers!... dont need so many amp channels, dont need to spend ages installing them... etc etc

[AussieN14]

The way i've got mine setup is as follows:-

Sony Head Unit - Single CD
Sony 6" Splits @ front
Sony 6" 3-way's @ rear
2 x Sony 12" XPLoD subs in sealed box


The splits and 3-ways are running through a 4x 80W philips amp with a high-pass filter, while the subs are running through a 2 x 150W amp with a low-pass filter.

It's all well balanced now and sounds awesome, no distortion even at max volume.

Best thing is none of the stereo (except the head-unit) is visible from the outside, so it won't get ripped off!

-btw, if you're gonna have subs in an N14, secure the parcel shelf, it vibrates like crazy

[REDSSS]

Originally posted by AussieN14
-btw, if you're gonna have subs in an N14, secure the parcel shelf, it vibrates like crazy
hrmm my shelf never vibrates but my number plate sure makes a racket... and the spoiler makes a lota noise too

[AussieN14]

yeh? oh well i've fixed mine now anyway, don't make any more noise.

I know what ya mean about the plate and wing, i fixed the plate (small amount of padding underneath) can't do anything about the wing though.

[twincam16]

Yeah i am with Danny there

a big fat TOLD YOU SO CLAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The splits and 3-ways are running through a 4x 80W philips amp with a high-pass filter, while the subs are running through a 2 x 150W amp with a low-pass filter.

It's all well balanced now and sounds awesome, no distortion even at max volume.

err 3 ways are generaly more efficent then splits so if both are getting 80w (do you realise how hard it is to believe that your amp puts out 4x80) then the rear will appear louder than the front. (YUCK)

what surely would be a better idea in my view would be to bridge the 4ch and give the front end the power it deserves and run the rear off the deck with a highpass bi-polar capacator on the positive wire. there is no need to give the rear the "amount" of power that your giving it compared to the front.

[naturaldisasta]

to fix number plate rattling, I siliconed rubber impregnated with bitumin bits of sheet to the plate, and screwed it back on. No probs.

I found that my roof was really bad, so decided to do the whole car. Spent a few hundred sound deadening the whole car from the boot to the front firewall. About the only rattle I still get is from coins in the coin tray, so I stuck a rubber cloth in there to stop that, and sometimes the rear tray will vibrate, but thats been reinforced and thats about it now.

Damon

[REDSSS]

hrmmm i dont think this thread will ever die... this has been going for ages now

[twincam16]

hahah yeah, when i lost my license when i had my old Twincam 16 Rolla, i compleatly striped the interior and did the whole thing, with the hand paint on stuff, messy? yes, effective F!@% oath!

Even the dashboard came out, have to scan the pic to explain :lol

[Rex]

Originally posted by naturaldisasta
to fix number plate rattling, I siliconed rubber impregnated with bitumin bits of sheet to the plate, and screwed it back on. No probs.

I found that my roof was really bad, so decided to do the whole car. Spent a few hundred sound deadening the whole car from the boot to the front firewall. About the only rattle I still get is from coins in the coin tray, so I stuck a rubber cloth in there to stop that, and sometimes the rear tray will vibrate, but thats been reinforced and thats about it now.

Damon


did you do the whole car yourself ???

[naturaldisasta]

did you do the whole car yourself ???

I was working next door to a car uphoslterer at the time, so I ordered all the matting from them. They supplied me with all the adhesive tools etc.. for free. I got the sound deadener paint from a crash shop for $5 a liter, and about $7 for the spray can version which was handy for reaching spots you couldn't see. The boot I concentrated the most on seeing how the subs were going in there.

I sprayed into the rear cavity (no jokes please) where the jack goes (again no comments - heh sounds like some back door porno) and then put in heaps of foam which I had been collecting from my work. For some reason IBM ships virtually any IBM part with a stack of foam. Anyway, stuck in a bit of foam, sprayed, more foam, sprayed etc...

Now you tap the side panels and doors, and it sounds solid, instead of hollow.

Because the sub box goes in the tyre well, it got an extra dose of the deadener. I then lined underneath with some spare dacron before putting the fibreglass box back in. A liberal application of silicon did the rest to stop vibration. In order for me to be able to get the box out whenever I want, I just did strips of silicon on the outside of the box before I put it in, and let it cure so it wouldnt stick to the body of the car.

Damon

[Rex]

cool, i would love to soundproof the whole car but i dont think i have the patience! :eek:

[twincam16]

Think of the mess!

and how long it would take you to get it off yout skin... AGAIN!

[naturaldisasta]

wear gloves (dishwashing type) and have some turps nearby for what you miss. Took me about 1 day to do the doors, 1 day for the dash and a day for the boot.

Damon