NGK Iridium's go in on Tuesday

[PhilSSStevenson]

OK I've ordered four of 'em.... $21 each....

Will let you know if there is a smidge of difference (say 0.5 kilowatts) I'll feel it if its there.....

:bounce:

[Sam]

All i can say is that, that is very expensive for a set of bloody spark plugs, for that money i would want a 5kw increase in power...at the wheels!!!:D

[SPL15H]

Ive got them ......... got them a bit choiper too ........no real dif in the Q but who knows ...apparently they dont burn out as quickly which makes them better.

Simon F

[Zombie]

Just wondering where in brissy you got that prices on those plugs

best i have found was $25 each

zombie

[slut]

Hmm, well I bought a set of platinums to suit the DET, $30 each.
So quit complaining :P

[dan]

they're factory-spec plugs steve, they wont make any difference.. it's what your car was running out of the factory and what it should be running all the time

[N1S]

damm.. pricy.. i got mine for $18 each

[Zombie]

Just wondering where you got them from in brissy cause the best price i found was $25 each

Let me know thanks

Zombie::D

[PhilSSStevenson]

Got 'em from Repco, Taringa (QLD)


They go in tonight...:bounce:

[PhilSSStevenson]

They're in....

A slight difference, but I felt it....

yeahhhhhhh:rockin:

[BLU-555]

I have had them in for 18,000km now and would highly recommend them as I can feel a big differents but my old plugs had done 100,000km so chances are there would be a fair bit of diff from old plugs car runs alot smoother.

[21CED]

I use NGK platinums to suit the DET $25, I was hear that Iridiums are as good... and because there was a slight price difference I just went the expensive ones.
:thumbsup:

[Pretty White]

$21.00. Holee shit! :Poke: :bawlink:

A platinum plug at the dealer here is $8-10.00 USD.
It is probally $21 here too!

[Carefactor]

Best i found in Campbelltown were about $21 ($84 for 4) as well. But Nissan wanted $108 (for 4):thwap: They're kidding arent they!!!!

[Rex]

i got some bosch super 4's going in this week, i'll let u know how they go

[SILVRSSS]

Bosch Super 4's :rockin: :rockin:

We are currently using them in a sV 13B Turbo due to the high spark they produce especially using twin coils, so Clay let us know how they go, was definitely considering them as a replacement....

[Pretty White]

Originally posted by Rex
i got some bosch super 4's going in this week, i'll let u know how they go


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To SE-R Net <se-r@lists.deskmedia.com>
From Craig Rogers <craigrogers@phs.co.uk>
Date Thu, 16 Dec 1999 15:25:20 -0000
Reply-To Craig Rogers <craigrogers@phs.co.uk>
Sender owner-se-r-reflective@lists.deskmedia.com

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Before I had the GTi-R, I had a Sunny GTi, and always used the standard
NGK's (after Nissan and many tuners told me to stick with them), I saw the
Super 4's, and thought that I would give 'em a go.

I put them in, and they lasted about 2-3 months, when I developed a
mis-fire. I could not find the problem anywhere, so just out of interest, I
put the old NGK's back in, mis-fire went.

At the time I had the car booked in for a rolling road tune up, I went armed
with a new set of NGK's, the old set of NGK's and the Super 4's.

Run 1 - Old NGk's, car gave out around 170(ish)bhp.

Run 2 - The (still quite new) Super 4's, car was running at about
160(ish)bhp

Run 3 - New NGK's, car gave out the same as run 1

I know that many of you guys run Super 4's and have no problems, so I may
have had a dodgy plug, but it was ok for the first 2 months.

Then I thought about something, there's a myth going around that you get
more power from a plug if it's sitting properly in the head, I think with
the electrode inline with the inlet valve (could be the other way around),
so that when it sparks, it's sparking in the right direction. However, with
the Super 4's, the spark will be jumping between any of the electrodes
giving an uneven spark everytime it fires.

Worth thinking about!

(sorry James, I sent it directly to you by mistake!)

Craig Rogers - Sunny GTi-R
Nissan Performance Club UK - http://drive.to/npcuk



To JMcColl@carswell.com
From "Mike Kojima" <mike_kojima@hotmail.com>
Date Thu, 16 Dec 1999 09:20:16 PST
Cc se-r@lists.deskmedia.com
Reply-To "Mike Kojima" <mike_kojima@hotmail.com>
Sender owner-se-r-reflective@lists.deskmedia.com

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Well how good of a "Nissan Trained Tech" depends on how well he payed
attention. I guess that means he knows more than the Nissan Engineers that
speced the NGK plugs!

It is well documented that I think that the Bosch plugs suck on this list no
matter what everyone else says. Well we tried the plus 4's on SCC editior,
Dave Coleman's SE-R. It ran great for a few thousand miles and then started
to experiance the good old Bosch rough idle and poor driveabilty gig.

When we pulled the plugs, the center electrode on one plug actualy eroded
way into the insulator, about 0.010". Like I said , Bosch plugs usualy work
ok for a while but the center electrode soon recedes past the insulator of
the center electrode causing the spark to shoot out of a hole. Sparks like
to propagate on sharp edges so this is not good.

Dave sent the plugs back to Bosch and is waiting for their reply. I think
that there is no difference between the two in short term use but the Bosch
plugs will run worse after a few thousand miles. Several hard core
disagreeing with me Bosch guys have resently changed there minds after
switching back to NGK. It seems like there cars did run better. They did
not notice the slow onset of rough running that the Bosch plugs caused.

Mike



RE: Bosch Plus 4 Plugs

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To JMcColl@carswell.com
From "Mike Kojima" <mike_kojima@hotmail.com>
Date Thu, 16 Dec 1999 14:37:06 PST
Cc se-r@lists.deskmedia.com
Reply-To "Mike Kojima" <mike_kojima@hotmail.com>
Sender owner-se-r-reflective@lists.deskmedia.com

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

James wrote:

When you put in new plugs,
>should the ecu be reset? Does the timing need to be reset just for new
>plugs? He feels that if you don't do these things when the Bosch +4s are
>put in the car, they won't work properly.

>If I do those two things, will the car end up making more, rather than less
>power?

The ECU does not need to be reset although it will speed the time it takes
for the self-learning function to learn a non-misfire condition. Normaly
the ECU will self adjust in a few hours of driving.

Plugs have no affect on how the timing should be set.

The plugs will not give you any more power over what just about any nice new
properly gapped plugs will give you. Brand new Bosch or NGK plugs will give
about the same hp when new. It is just that Bosch deteriorates rapidly. If
you are replacing old worn plugs with new ones it is normal to see a few
more hp if the rest of the ignition system, especialy the distributor cap
and plug wires are in good working order.

Mike

Just a few comments on Bosch plugs.

[Pretty White]

Originally posted by Rex
i got some bosch super 4's going in this week, i'll let u know how they go

NOoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOO!


They suck big time. Stick to the stock NGK plugs (6's) and Nissan wires. See here why:


Spark plugs and Ignition systems

There is a lot of controversy on the list on what is the best, most appropriate sparkplug for our cars. My opinion is yet another one but at least it is backed by years of racing experience and recent dyno testing.

Heat Range of plugs
Sparkplugs come in many heat ranges. This is so the plug can be matched to the type of use an engine receives. For low speed, short hop driving, the plugs electrodes must stay hot enough to burn away and self-clean fouling carbon deposits. For this type of driving a hot plug is needed. For high speed racing at high rpm, the plug can become too hot and glow like a diesel glowplug causing pre-ignition and detonation. This can quickly destroy an engine. To prevent this a cold heat range plug is needed.

The length of the insulator of the center electrode determines a plugs heat range. You can tell a cold plug from a hot plug by looking at the center electrode’s insulator. If the porcelain insulator is short, it is a cold plug. If it is long and extends deeply into the steel shell of the plug, it is a hot plug. This is because a cold plugs short center electrode has a short path to conduct heat out of the electrode. A hotter plug has a longer path and dissipates heat more slowly.

Most listmembers seem like they are unaware of matching the spark plugs heat range to the type of driving that they do. I wince when I think that many are squeezing nos or pumping turbo boost with the stock hot plugs.

In my opinion the best spark plugs for the SR20DE and DET are the stock Genuine Nissan NGK platinum plugs. I like a decent platinum plug. Platinum is a noble metal with a high melting point. Being almost inert, it is highly corrosion resistant even at high temperatures. That is why a platinum plug lasts about 3 times longer than a conventional plug. When used in the plug's electrode it resists erosion much better than steel.

Stock Nissan plugs have platinum in both the center and ground electrode for really long life. Most aftermarket platinum plugs only use platinum in the center electrode. I prefer for most engines, even the stock ones, to run the PFR6B-11 spark plug. This is the middle heat range for the NGK plugs. SR20 powered cars come with PFR5B-11 plugs, which are one heat range warmer. Originally when the SR20 was first introduced, the cars came with PFR6B-11s but they were fouling out during port storage where the cars are continuously being started, moved a few feet, and shut off. The countermeasure to high warranty on low mile sparkplugs was the switch to the hot plug.

The PFR6B-11 works well on high compression, turbocharged or NOS powered cars. For running extreme boost (more than 18 psi), a big shot of nos (more than 100 hp) or really high compression (more than 11:1) the cold PFR7B-11 plug is necessary. This plug will be on the edge of fouling during regular day to day driving so it can be considered a race only plug.

The SR20 has a shallow included angle of the combustion chamber. This makes for a quick burning, detonation-resistant chamber. I have also found that shallow included angle chambers for the most part do not like extended tip plugs. When experimenting with extended tip plugs I have found that the engine loses about 3-4 hp across the board. Many aftermarket plugs are extended tip. The theory behind extended tip plugs is that the extended tip puts the electrodes in a more turbulent section of the combustion chamber, thus helping them stay clean of fouling.

In the SR20 an extended tip plug puts the electrode too close to the piston dome screwing up flame propagation, thus losing power. This is important to consider if your are deviating from the Stock Nissan recommendation. Make sure that the tip of the plug that you are buying does not extend further than the stock plug’s tip. If you are running flat top or domed pistons, this is even more critical as the tip of the plug is even closer to the piston dome.

The SR20 has a powerful stock ignition that can fire through turbo boost and NOS. Gap the plugs at 0.045". If you experience misfire under squeeze or high boost (and the rest of the ignition system is in good condition, like the cap, rotor and wires) you can close the gap down to as small as 0.020" to prevent it. Go down in 0.005" increments until the misfire stops. Higher cylinder pressures cause by big NOS or high boost requires smaller gaps with the stock ignition. The smaller gap loses a little power but this trick can tide you over until you can get that snazzy turkey roaster ignition.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

High Power Ignition
I haven’t run across a SE-R that has needed this yet but I suppose that over a 100 shot of nos or 18 psi of boost might need a high power ignition. Jacobs ignitions are crap. I would not bother with them. I prefer an MSD 6A or better unit. I have never needed an MSD on an SR20 yet but I have had very good luck with them on other cars including racecars. The Crane Hi 6 has gotten rave reviews also but they seem prone to burning out (two of my friends have been stranded because of a burnt out Hi-6). These ignitions are very powerful, capable of firing the spark plugs for over 30 degrees of crank rotation. Just the thing for high cylinder pressures.

I have a Nology coil booster on my SE-R. It seemed kind of hokey but I installed it. It has allowed my car to run smoothly even with the plug's electrodes completely burned off. When the coil booster was unplugged the car would barely run so I guess it works well. The Nology coil booster is the only easy way to hop up a 200SX’s ignition as the coil is an integral part of the distributor.

I believe I have found the limits of the stock SR20 ignition system. On Ryan's turbo car, when exceeding 10 psi of boost we developed a misfire which required that the plug gap be closed to 0.020". Even this was only good to 14 psi before misfire started again.

On my 11:1 compression NA motor misfire was happening until I closed the gap also.

So on really built cars I now recommend the MSD 6A or SCI ignition system. On 95 and later cars with an internal coil, MSD makes an external coil conversion kit for Hondas that also works on our cars. Just be sure to cut the primary conductor from the stock coil and fill the resulting hole in the distributor cap up with silicone or some of the extra power from your new coil will be wasted.

As a note, these ignition systems don't seem to work too well with Nology wires. I use either stock or NGK wires.

These high power ignitions will not give you much more power but they will eliminate frustrating misfire and help starting and low speed driveabilty.


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OTHER PLUGS

Bosch Platinum
I hate these plugs. They have a weird center electrode that is flush with the insulating porcelain. What happens is that this electrode quickly erodes so it ends up being a depression in the porcelain, making the spark shoot out of a hole. Sparks like to propagate from sharp edges so I think they have a hard time getting out of this hole.

These plugs will absolutely not work for long in high compression, high rpm, boosted or NOS applications. The are marginal on a stock engine. In my experience they work OK for a few thousand miles then start to idle roughly and on modified engines misfire under load. It amazes me that an OEM level supplier like Bosch can make pieces of crap like these.

Some listmembers have recently dyno tested these plugs on stockish engines and have found them to be OK. This included some used plugs that were at least 20k miles old. My personal opinion is that these are pretty bad for most stock motors. The VG30 in my Pathfinder will barely run with these plugs. Kit Wetzler also experienced poor driveabilty in his NX2000 with these plugs.

[ Ed note: This is Mike's opinion of these plugs based on his personal experience. Go to Bosch Platinum vs. NGK Platinum Spark Plugs for a comparison of the two. -MM ]

Bosch Plus 4
Although I have not had any experience with them, Chris Pinthong and Dave Coleman have tested them and found them to work well. These plugs have an unusual design with 4 ground electrodes much like a rotary engine plug. Hopefully they are much better than the regular Bosch Platinum.

Beru
These plugs have a silver conductor for the center electrode. Since silver conducts electricity better than steel or copper it is reportedly better. The electrode material is still steel so I don’t think that these are much of an advantage.

NGK V plugs
These work fine, just change them frequently. Be sure that the tip does not extend further than the stock plugs.

Split Fire
I call these Miss Fires. They have an extended tip that the SR20 hates. The dual ground electrodes may have some merit by creating more sharp edges for spark propagation but this is moot when the extended tip causes hp loss.

Champion, AC and others.
I don’t have any experience with these. Make sure the heat range and tip length is appropriate for our motors. I think that these brands have some premium labels that have unique electrode configurations to have more sharp edges for spark propagation. Some list members have had good luck with these.

The main thing to remember with SR20s is that the plug’s tip length must be close to the stock plugs or power loss will result and the heat range must be appropriate for the intended end use or engine-destroying detonation may occur.

[PhilSSStevenson]

good night Irene.......:o

[Rex]

hmmm.... i will see how the bosch go but i will keep in mind what you have said, if i start to get wierd idling problems i will go and buy a set of ngk iridium straight away... thanks for the heads up ;)

[tissue]

are the stock plugs 5s or 6s? Cause I just asked for some plugs for my NX from Nissan, and the guy gave me 5s. But in the manual it recommends 6s. Any suggestions?

[PhilSSStevenson]

Use 5's for city driving... (they are a warmer plug) use 6's for high speed tours (colder plugs)

[Mr N20]

Well most of you know that ive been using super 4's for quite a few yrs now and i love them!!......but i did have a dodgy one in chugga only a few months back which dissapointed me a bit, it was the same problem that was discussed from that quote up there.
i am buying super 4's for 80UNC today so fingers crossed eh'
ill give the full speech after testing on saturday

shan